Symone Sanders Townsend and Melissa Murray Discuss Their New MSNBC Special (Exclusive Clip)

There are a number of varying paths to the Oval Office for Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump this November. But almost all of those paths require winning over a part of the American population whose voices are too often ignored: Black women.

That’s the takeaway from a new MSNBC primetime special from Symone Sanders Townsend and Melissa Murray, who set out on a cross country trip to hear those voters’ concerns in their own words. And the duo found that while most Black women are likely to tick the box for Harris, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be in the Democratic camp the next time around—especially since Trump likely wouldn’t be on the 2028 ballot.

Premiering on Sunday at 9 p.m. ET on MSNBC and Peacock, Black Women in America: The Road to 2024 is filled with moments that counter prevailing narratives about what Black women are seeking from Washington, D.C. While Townsend and Sanders spoke with prominent figures like actress Kerry Washington, lawyer Sherrilyn Ifill, and NAACP Legal Defense Fund president Janai Nelson—both of whom are featured in an exclusive clip that TVNewser is premiering—they also ventured into communities that aren’t always glimpsed on-camera.

TVNewser asked Townsend and Sanders to share some of what they learned during their trip across America, from the gender gap that’s been visible in polls to the common themes that can be glimpsed in a divided country.

Watch an exclusive clip from Black Women in America: The Road to 2024:

(This interview has been edited for length and clarity)

Should Harris win what will it mean for America to see the first Black woman sworn into the presidency on Inauguration Day?

Symone Sanders Townsend: Obviously it will be historic, because a woman would have just broken the glass ceiling and a woman of color. But for the voters that we talked to—particularly some of the Black millennial women—my takeaway was that they were heartened by the history that was going to be made, but it wasn’t history that would be pushing them to the ballot box. The historical nature of her candidacy isn’t, for lack of a better term, enough for them.

Frankly, that’s something I think the Harris campaign realizes, and the vice president herself, because they’re not emphasizing the historical nature of her candidacy. She is making a different pitch and given the conversations we’ve had across the country, I think that pitch is what’s going going to resonate with folks. But obviously, it will be historic if she wins and once she is inaugurated. And I do think that when women are at the table, things change.

Melissa Murray: I agree with everything Symone said. One thing that stuck out to me is something that some of the women in our Washington, D.C. nail salon segment said about this being an historic election. They understood that, but they also recognize that if Vice President Harris wins, and even if she shatters the glass ceiling, she’ll actually be on a glass cliff. Expectations for her will be so heightened.

So they recognize that for Black women, supporting her isn’t a one and done kind of deal. They’re going to come out and support her and vote for her in this election, and they also have to be ready to support her in the presidency, because she’s going to have a lot of eyes on her. Her successes will be recognized, but if she fails to succeed on certain fronts, that will also be magnified.

Townsend: Going back to that part that Melissa just highlighted, the women in the nail shop brought this up on their own. And then they likened it to President Biden when it comes to student loans. Even though he did put the policy in place, the Supreme Court blocked it. And young people across America are still saying that we don’t have the student loan reform.

The women specifically said that she’s going to have to be able to make good on the promises that she’s made. To me, that just reinforces that voters are paying attention. We have to give the voters in America more credit. They’re paying attention and are very nuanced in how they think about this election.

We’ve seen a gender gap emerge in the polls with more women planning to vote for Harris than men. Did you hear of that divide existing between Black men and women?

Murray: We did hear a bit about that. There’s been a lot of discussion about Black men—particularly young Black men without college degrees—being very Trump-curious, and we wondered if the same sort of curiosity might be reflected among younger Black women in that demographic. We were a little surprised to find that while many of the younger women were definitely disaffected, they were not Trump-curious. It was really just, “Do I sit this one out?” As opposed to, “Do I pull the lever for Donald Trump?” They were very clear that, in their view, he was an existential threat.

Townsend: I think that the gender gap that is showing up in some of the polling is indicative that there is still work to be done. This is going to be a close election, and the polls are a snapshot in time, but there is still work to do when it comes to some subset of male voters for the Harris campaign. Concurrently, there is real work to do for Donald Trump when it comes to women voters in America. I feel like the work that the Vice President has to do is different, and I would argue, more attainable than the work that Trump has to do, just because of the nature of the things that Trump himself has said and the policies that people connect him to.

What policies do voters expect or hope to see a potential Harris administration pursue to help Black women?

Townsend: Abortion and all things economic. The economy was the throughline for every single conversation we had. It’s at the top of mind for Black women voters for sure.

Melissa Murray: The economy is huge, and they also understand how reproductive rights relate to economic fortunes. I think that may be different from the way it’s articulated in other communities, but for all of the Black women that we spoke to, having reproductive freedom was a kitchen table issue. Having children, being able to care for them when you have them, and not having children—all of those things went directly to their economic well-being. They saw those two issues as inextricably intertwined, and wanted them addressed.

They also were very concerned about police violence, especially the women in in Washington, D.C. I’m not sure exactly how deeply a presidential administration can change the question of police violence, since 18,000 police departments are under local and state control. But that was a place where they felt they were not being heard.

What’s a common theme that you heard during your cross country travels?

Townsend: We asked women in Montgomery County, PA and the younger women we spoke to at the nail shop very directly to respond to this notion that Black women are saviors who are going to [protect] democracy. One of them said, “I can barely hold up my rent—how can I hold up democracy?” They all felt that it was assumed that [Democrats] will have their vote, and that is the wrong assumption. They need to earn their vote.

Melissa Murray: Every single Black woman we talked to was of the view that their votes were being taken for granted and that they were in the bag for the Democratic party. I think it was true in this election, because they understood that this is an existential crisis for democracy. But it was also revealed to us that if the stakes aren’t quite as high, they might not be moved to come out and save democracy another time—unless people start taking them and their votes seriously.